tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post8282568131974144124..comments2024-02-19T11:10:16.893-08:00Comments on Brown Moses Blog: Industrial And Economic Aspects Of Sarin : Why Poor Quality Is Not An Indicator Of Non-state ManufactureBrown Moseshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17562126209980810351noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-44523982658755234562014-02-06T00:30:36.546-08:002014-02-06T00:30:36.546-08:00"To get a high quality, acid-free, long-shelf..."To get a high quality, acid-free, long-shelf life product, you need a lot more money and effort than just a base-level production facility" I agree with you. But for creating a new product you needa innovative ideas. I work with the scientific and production company <a href="http://www.aquar-system.com/catalog/paper-quality-control-system/" rel="nofollow">quar-system.com</a> and I want to say that innovation and new idea take the first place.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06421119961459221505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-74927452745611097762013-11-09T14:24:44.705-08:002013-11-09T14:24:44.705-08:00HF is lethal, but not necessarily as you describe....HF is lethal, but not necessarily as you describe.<br /><br />It's commonly used where I live in analysis of mineral ores. You can buy it in liquid form easily. In fact my high-school lab had a couple of bottles of it. No special suits required. Just a fume hood and gloves.<br /><br />The way it kills is direct absorption through the skin that then kills you after a couple of days when insoluble fluorides clog up your kidneys and liver.<br /><br />If you spill a few ml on your skin you have at most a few seconds to apply the antidote salve or your fate is irretrievably sealed.<br /><br />One case I know of here, the guy was preparing mineral samples in a workshop and spilled some on his lap. He didn't have the salve and instead dived immediately into the swimming pool just outside and ripped his clothes off. Too late. Dead in two days despite the very best medical attention.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-10237118129009011752013-11-08T17:50:06.427-08:002013-11-08T17:50:06.427-08:00Thanks for this Analysis. My response: whoghouta.b...Thanks for this Analysis. My response: whoghouta.blogspot.com/2013/11/response-to-dan-kaszetas-chemical.html<br /><br />Bottom line: <br />1. There is strong evidence to suggest Syria is unlikely to use a just-in-time binary process.<br />2. Analysis of the specific impurities (and not just their amounts) indicates a very immature process.<br />3. The cost estimates are no longer relevant in today's technologies. The opposition is definitely able to produce sarin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16560859391032391947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-25764291952770828682013-11-07T21:30:52.345-08:002013-11-07T21:30:52.345-08:00Thanks for the sharing of such info. we are going ...Thanks for the sharing of such info. we are going to pass it on to our readers. this can be an excellent reading. Thanking you<br /><br /><a href="http://bestpersonalinjuryclaim.com/work-accident-claims/" rel="nofollow">Work accident claims</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07958415552993536234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-47077489262280306592013-11-07T09:23:31.277-08:002013-11-07T09:23:31.277-08:00HF is lethal, as numerous accidents in the silicon...HF is lethal, as numerous accidents in the silicon chip manufacturing industry would have proved had they not been so skillfully covered up and smoothed away.<br /><br />As this article suggests, the problem is that HF gets through protective clothing that would easily protect against nerve gas, even though the specific toxicity is much less. The nature of the toxicity is equally insidious: often the victim's heart just stops with no tell-tale signs as to why. HF may not be a popular chemical weapon, but it continues to claim lives in industry.Medawarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05119173935699236303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-74444975264184746552013-11-07T09:13:12.352-08:002013-11-07T09:13:12.352-08:00The UK did a lot of tests with Sarin and produced ...The UK did a lot of tests with Sarin and produced it in some quantity before VX was developed. Once VX was developed, that became the UK's main chemical deterrent and Sarin was only really produced to develop and test defences against it.<br /><br />The UK's eventual strategy with nerve gas was to avoid building a large stockpile, (getting rid of their existing mustard gas munition stockpile was already a nightmare by the mid fifties) and instead have a plant ready to produce the stuff in quantity in a time of tension. <br /><br />They may very well have done the chemical engineering to make stable sarin, especially after accidents with what were supposed to be non lethal, dilute doses (hard to be consistent if you've used an old batch of unstable sarin and switch to a new one, which is basically what caused the most notorious accident) but the military-industrial strategy already incorporated a get-around for the stability issue, and the switch from Sarin to VX may also have been stability driven.<br /><br />The UK didn't want to have nerve gas on its hands in such quantity as would create the disposal problem they had with mustard gas. Russia and American promptly produced every gas they could in vast amounts, which was a dangerous way to waste a huge amount of money and created a real threat to their own security which has only recently been dealt with.<br /><br />The UK did have an agreement to share nerve gas technology with Sweden, which may have been the price of Sweden not developing Nazi nuclear warhead designs and technology, nearly all of which had ended up in Sweden. (The Swan type, two point tactical nuclear warhead the Americans used for battlefield weapons was actually based on Swedish development of Nazi ideas and was not America's own work at all. It's completely unlike anything developed by the Manhattan project, but met the Swedish requirement for a warhead that could be delivered by (originally British designed) 9.2" coastal defence guns. This weapon had already fallen foul of arms limitation campaigns when the Washington treaty effectively barred it from shipborne use (mainly because it outranged everything else), years before the development of nuclear warheads.) <br /><br />The same, obviously minus coastal defence guns, may be true of Switzerland. Certainly, both Sweden and Switzerland started nuclear programmes, which they were technologically well able to complete, but also developed nerve gas technology which they retained in deployable form till the late seventies. <br /><br />So, the UK probably could make stable Sarin, but the UK's actual chemical deterrent was the "just in time" production of nerve gas, primarily VX. Which is exactly what Sweden and Switzerland ended up with, too, though all dabbled with Sarin prior to the development of VX<br /><br />The UK's post-war chemical and biological weapons programmes were driven both by the unexpectedly rapid progress of Russia's nuclear programme, and by the Truman administration reneging on the secret nuclear cooperation agreement which Roosevelt had made with Churchill. They couldn't guarantee to make an effective nuclear deterrent, and also felt deeply untrusting of America's intentions. <br /><br />(Apparently, Truman simply didn't know about the agreement and had no idea that Britain had supplied the technology which made the Manhattan project possible in the first place.)<br /><br />Once the UK had a nuclear deterrent it felt with could rely upon (Ie: not the first generation weapons), priority given to chemical and biological weapons fell markedly and the only work really done was defensive. Medawarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05119173935699236303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-21942425548380897242013-11-06T23:46:49.603-08:002013-11-06T23:46:49.603-08:00Not exactly insanely lethal. Just nasty.
The prec...Not exactly insanely lethal. Just nasty.<br /><br />The precursors to Sarin are methylphosphonyl difluoride and Isopropyl alcohol (and Isopropylamine to clean up the Hydrogen Fluoride)<br /><br />What needs to be shipped across the desert is methylphosphonyl difluoride. The other two chemicals are available locally. Significantly the isopropyl alcohol on August 21 was industrial grade, not reagent grade.<br /><br />Mixing on site is as simple as using the industrial equivalent of a tempering valve in the pump line from the source drums to the missile..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-53540364004049494022013-11-06T22:10:28.890-08:002013-11-06T22:10:28.890-08:002 x 55 gallon drums of a highly corrosive, rather ...2 x 55 gallon drums of a highly corrosive, rather volatile, insanely lethal cocktail of chemicals, through a desert, in summer, during a war.<br /><br />Sooner you than me! I get nervous driving home with pizza on the passenger seatBoothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11368149736193964379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-12198797714345675032013-11-06T17:19:57.134-08:002013-11-06T17:19:57.134-08:00The maximum amount of Sarin dumped on Eastern Ghou...The maximum amount of Sarin dumped on Eastern Ghouta would have been 600 kg - assuming 12 missiles at 50 kg each. That is based on activist reports of twelve impact locations.<br /><br />However there is only evidence for at most four actual strikes on Eastern Ghouta. It is pretty certain that if there were more missile remains they'd have been documented.<br /><br />So we are looking at 200 kg of Sarin - i.e. a US 55 gallon drum worth. Maybe two drums being very generous. That's not exactly difficult to truck in from any nearby hostile country.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-1667693598172627552013-11-06T15:51:21.354-08:002013-11-06T15:51:21.354-08:00Thanks for that, I've found the original sourc...Thanks for that, I've found the original source, and made a lengthy post about it. Very interesting stuff.Brown Moseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17562126209980810351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-6733144754444906332013-11-06T14:06:27.860-08:002013-11-06T14:06:27.860-08:00http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f3_1383773360http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f3_1383773360alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535793398001815924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-41145799053492737972013-11-06T13:22:46.504-08:002013-11-06T13:22:46.504-08:00Nice review.
I've not been following too man...Nice review. <br /><br />I've not been following too many of the PCCT arguments/articles about why the attack couldn't have been carried out by the Syrian government. It would be interesting to see how many had argued both 2 and 3 from your list of "Quality Arguments" - they are essentially mutually exclusive (in ~15 years as working chemist i can't remember using many small, odorless amines!) <br /><br />I'm pretty sure that I.G. Farben stopped protecting the IP on the name Sarin a while ago!<br /><br />Of course none of this prevents a tonne of Sarin being tankered into Syria from the production plant in the Saudi desert ;-)<br /><br />Ciantic - there are probably too many obsitcles to bringing an ICC or similar prosecution for mass murder relating to the August attack. For example - OPCW have duties of confidentiality regarding what a country declares to them/what they find. Boothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11368149736193964379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-40767403681864345242013-11-06T09:38:23.521-08:002013-11-06T09:38:23.521-08:00No offence but this issue is a bit stale now.
OPC...No offence but this issue is a bit stale now.<br /><br />OPCW and UN security council could find the type of gas stored in Assad's arsenal pretty easily. They could then match it to the evidence gathered by UN team.<br /><br />It can't be investigated at the moment, there is no international appetite. However past examples show these crimes won't go unpunished (in real meaning of the word) in modern world.Ciantichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09708844807487564418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4871088750473093560.post-23824232632096784342013-11-06T08:52:42.362-08:002013-11-06T08:52:42.362-08:00I'll add one more possibility for impure Sarin...I'll add one more possibility for impure Sarin produced by the regime: There were reports last fall of indications that Sarin was being mixed up from precursors by the regime. If that Sarin wasn't used until August, it would be impure.Cheryl Roferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082102629165547210noreply@blogger.com